Light .22 Cal Bolt Action

[Handgun'r]

Hello fellas,
Anyone have a bolt gun in either .221 Fireball or other 2500 to 3000fps. offering, that's a good moderate fox & coyote tool. I have a .22-250 in a 700VSSF, and I'd like to pick a middle range piece for my collection. The .223 is too close to the 250', which can be downloaded to match. What I thought looked good, was the Fireball. It still has the 1 in 14 twist, and looks ballistically appealling. I have a friend that is shooting the .17 Rem. but @ 3800 to 4000 fps. he trashes fox pelts. Like I mentioned, I'd like to be able to use it for both fox & coyotes. I haven't checked through the gun manufacturers to see what they offer. I figured that I check with you folks first........ @black
Thanks..........Bob

[S.Frame]

I have owned several rifles in 221 FB and it is a very versatile, accurate, and efficient little cartridge that sure ought to be more popular than it is.

You can easily duplicate .22 hornet performance with greatly increased case life and accuracy, and if desired, you can crank it up and nip right at the heels of it's bigger brothers the .222 and .223

In the 20" barrel of my Cooper 21 I get 3,300 fps with a 40gr Berger and a casefull of RL-7. Another load that is a bit more fur friendly uses AA-1680 to push a 45gr Hornady PSP at about 2800 fps, and doesn't gobs of thread to sew up holes in prime pelts.

The Remington model 700 Classic for 2002 is chambered in 221 and there should be a copy sitting on your local dealers shelf right now that will follow you home for about $540 or so.

What's the nicest thing about owning a rifle in 221?........

You can re-barrel the thing to .17 MachIV when the urge strikes to specialize!

Now THAT'S the ne-plus Ultra for fox!

PS....

Tell your buddy with the .17 Rem to try a 22 grain Berger Match (NOT the MEF), loaded to about 3,600 fps. Teny little pin prick entrance, no exit.......No thread required ;)

Good hunting......S.Frame

[Handgun'r]

Frame,
Thanks for the info. I needed that. What I am looking to aquire is pretty much what you're shooting now. Either caliber I go with was going to be put into a 20" fat-barrelled short action, preferably a Model 7, or 700 Rem. I'd even take a look at the Ruger, which I had always been fond of their actions (98 mauser type) for years.
The .17 MachIV I don't have much info on. Is it a wildcat? I haven't gone through my manuals to look at the ballistics of it. The .17's usually blow up inside the critters, but every once in awhile you get an exit, and when you do, yeehaw.......looks like 50BMG. Coyotes aren't a problem. I was thinking aloud on the Fireball, no great commitment there, but it looked appealling. Like I said in the post, I've got tons of .223 brass and components, so I thought it was a logical choice. Ballistically, it's about where I want to be, but the Mach IV is another consideration. I could utilize the .223 brass in the .17 Rem. as well, but I've got a large batch of .22 bullets in various weights....so....???????
I'll check into it further...and you've helped a bunch. One question, is there any offerings other than the Remington chambered in the Fireball ? I don't think Ruger has anything........ maybe Winchester....don't know for sure???? Never the less, I'm with you on the shorter barrel. Makes a nice easy to use huntin' piece.
Thanks much......
Bob

[S.Frame]

Bob, the .17 Mach IV is based on the 221 case necked down to .172" with the shoulder angle increased to 30 degrees, and the body taper decreased by fire forming. It is probably one of the most easily formed, efficient, and popular .17 wildcats in existence.
[img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/S.Frame/Im000012.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image']
Excuse the poor picture quality, I'm new at this, but left to right: .22 rimfire mag, .22k-hornet, .17Mach IV, 221 FB, .222, .223

Compared to the .17 Remington, the MIV uses about 2/3rds the powder to produce 90 percent of the velocity, and does a fine job on fur.

It will run 25 grain bullets at 3,800 fps, 22 grainers at 4,000, and 20's at 4,200, with better barrel life and accuracy.

On the 221, the only factory rifles available in that chambering that I'm aware of are the 2002 Rem. 700 Classic, and the Cooper 21.

.223 brass is too short to use to form .17 Remington cases.

[Handgun'r]

Frame,
The .17 MachIV looks like a winner. I'm assuming reforming .223 brass isn't a problem, right? Apparently, forming the case into a shorter version with a different shoulder angle has the same accuracy affect as it does with other cartridges. Shorter and fatter with a sharper shoulder seems to be more efficient, powder wise. I know that you mentioned something about CZ rifles in another post. Do they chamber something in the MachIV ? If not who does ? I had also thought about necking 9mm mag or 10mm mag brass down to .22 cal or something similar to create an oddball that would work for me (I like to experiment). I have access to a gunsmith who can do such a conversion, so the sky's the limit (other than cash-LOL) The MachIV might be the ticket here......even though it's not in the .22 family, buying dies and heads might be the cheaper way out.
Thanks for the photo as well
Bob

[S.Frame]

Bob, I believe Parker Ackley was the first person to neck down the 221 fireball to .172”, but a custom gunsmith out of Nevada by the name of Vern O’Brien coined the name “.17 Mach IV” in the mid sixties and actually copyrighted it. For a time in the late eighties Kimber offered the model 84 in .17MIV, and Cooper chambers it the model 21, but that’s about it as far as factory rifles go.

Any rifle with a .378” bolt face can be re-barreled to the MIV, but in a repeater like the 700 or 70 it can be a real chore getting the short little cartridge to feed. The Remington 2002 “Classic” in 221 is probably the easiest route to a MIV bolt gun. All you have to do is screw on a new .17 caliber barrel. A few friends of mine have done just that, and they feed perfectly. I suppose it may be entirely possible that any model 700 short action with the right bolt face could be retrofitted with a 02’ Classic mag follower, but I haven’t tried that.

I re-barreled a CZ-527 in .223 to .17MIV using a #2 Shillen; it feeds just fine, and makes a dandy light “walk-around” varmint or calling rifle.
[img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/S.Frame/Mvc-621f.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image']
[img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/S.Frame/Mvc-629f.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image']

It is possible to form the MachIV from any cartridge in the .222 “family,” including the .223, but doing so will require a few extra forming steps, and also neck turning or inside reaming to reduce neck thickness. By far the easiest way to form the MIV is to start with virgin 221 brass. I use a three die forming set from CH-4D, along with a FL sizing die, and Hornady seater.

I don’t know about a .22-9mm mag., but the .22-10mm has already been done….the “.224 BOZ.” It is MUCH more difficult to form .400” dia. Brass to .224”; at least two separate annealing steps would be needed, and the forming die set from RCBS is about $320…..OUCH! After all that that, performance would be about on par with the K-hornet.

But if you REALLY want something different, don't let that stop you. Marching to a different drummer sometimes comes with a big price tag.

[Handgun'r]

Frame,
Nice toys there!
After replying the last time, I got thinking (dangerous & expensive), I have had an Encore sitting barrelless in my closet for the past year. I found an article where a fella had bought one of the Bullberry bull barrels in .17MIV. (I think in 20") All together, it looked like a pretty nice rig. Price wise, it'll probably run around $350 to $400.00 plus, but, it might get me shootin' cheaper. You brought up a good point on getting the .221 Fireball action, and using that. I have a buddy that has many unused barrelled actions and got into the benchrest thing sometime ago. He advised me to find an old 700 chambered in either .222 or .223, and use that. Your point makes a little more sense as far as feeding from the bolt. Altogether, I was looking at, $200. to $300 for a used action (whole gun), $200 to $250 (Shilen barrel), and (through our local 'smith) $150-$200 to mount, chamber & true the barrel & action. When all is said & done, you're looking at or near $1k. I'd rather go the bolt, but the Encore option is an attractive (& cheaper) route, that would get me shooting quicker and leave a little cash for dies & components. I've got just about every die set commercially available, but when you go to the wildcats, it gets pricey. I have more powder than is probably legal to posess, so I really need nothing more than dies, brass & heads. To be honest, I had been trying to come up with something to do with the Encore anyway. I am one of those guys that hates to have two guns to do the same job. I like a lot of guns, but I like to use the ones I have as well. I see guys with two or three .223's, or .22-250's, BUT, they always use their favorite one and the others rarely get used. Not me, trade em' and get a Fireball, or a .17 & PLAY MAN. LOL
Thanks for the photos & advise
Bob @black

PS-The fella in the article with the Encore....he had two barrels for it. The other was a .17 Hebee. A .218 Bee necked down to .17 ! It was a rimmed cartridge and was at or within spittin' distance of the MachIV! OPTIONS!???

[Myk]

I've seen that you can rent reamers to wildcat a 17WSSM already :)

[S.Frame]

The Encore or Contender are fine platforms for a .17MIV.

Fred also makes a "double ender" forming die for $35 that, in conjuction with a 2-die fl set (Redding $53), a can of Imperial sizing wax, and some fireball brass, will get you right down to buisiness at relatively minimal cost.

The Heebee is very close in case capacity to the MachIV, but the .218 Bee parent case is not designed for the high pressures. SAAMI limit for the bee is 43,000, for the 221 it is 55,000CUP. For that reason the Heebee cannot be safely loaded to equal the performance of the MIV.

Myk, when I get my hands on one of the new short action USRA's, I'll have it seventeenized faster than you can whistle dixie. An 8" twist 3-groove Pac-Nor is waiting as we speak.

Speed kills, you know it?

[Myk]

LOL.
I want to see the chrono reading from it when you do. :)

[Handgun'r]

Sounds like a plan....
I read something about Fred's double ended die in one of the seventeen articles. Asthetically speaking, the Encore, with the addition of his Bullberry bull barrel (too many bulls there, me thinks), and one of his stock combinations, looks pretty awesome. In the article I was referring to, the guy was getting .400 inch groups just fireforming! NICE.
Thanks Frame'r

Myk,
.17WSSM ? .....Nope, too small. Another project I was working on and failed to mention was my .17/50BMG. Not only does it kill whatever you're shooting at.....it also guts em', skins em' and all before they even hit the ground.....it's soooo fast........instead of moly, the bullets have to wear SPF1000 Sunblock..... ++hide
Bob

[Handgun'r]

Hey Frame'r,
I think I smell a plan forming....
What I've got so far is to barrel the Encore for the .17 MachIV. Since I don't have the buttstock & forend, I have to get them as well. I decided to go the "coffee laminate" route. When lamintes first came out, I didn't care for them much compared to wood, but they kind of grow on you a little.....kinda like when Chevy changed from the square front end to the rounded one (1988) on their pickups. :D
Anyway, another curve popped up in the decision dept....I've always bought from T/C, or the T/C Custom shop, but I also have the option of one of the Bullberry, or Virgin Valley offerings......what's your thought on the subject????????? Either way I go, the whole things gonna run around $550 to $600 and take about 3 to 4 months for them to complete. I've had a guy try to talk me into the "Tactical 20", but I could load a 35gr. VMax in a .223 and be close without all the hoop-lah. I'm like'n the .17 idea better......
Bob