Grrrrrrrrr. Scope

[Evan]

I all the sudden for the life of me cant get my 77/17 to shoot straight. it shoots a group the size of my open fist at 100yds. and at 50 its like 2"s what gives. all I can figure is my cheap simmons scope is letn loose. cause itl every ounce in awhile shoot 2 touching then spread em out from there.

I wasted more ammo today on paper than I ever have. talk about walkn away ticked off ;barney

and this is the rifle that shot one hole 50yd groups and nothing bigger than a 1" at 100 on calm day. ok I exsagerated the 50yd groups there more like dime sized

[Tifford]

Evan,

I was told by a guy who owned a gun shop for many years that the simmons was absolutly the lowest grade scope that you can get. Iron sites were almost as good.

I try not to put down anyone who has a simmons on their gun but they are the last scope I would get.

It might not be the scope but it sure sounds like it.

Tifford

[Mossyhorns]

Evan,

Try shooting out of a gun vise.For two reasons.#1 You could have developed a flinch,#2 Tiffords correct about the Simmons scopes and this will also help tell if it is.
Are you shooting handloads or Factory Ammo?
Could be Copper/Lead build up in the rifling of the barrel.Causing inaccurcy.
You did mention that you shot more than you ever had before this time out,Did your barrel get to warm and get that whipping effect?

It comes down to a proccess of elimination to pin point the cause or causes.
Clean the barrel extra good take a gun vise and head back out when your not so frustrated.Before you start swapping scopes on the guns again..LOL

Mossy

[Evan]

Tifford
Im pretty sure its the simmons, although it has seen use on my 25.06 were recoil is more. ohhhh it may have been on 22/250 to. it had bur on cross hair from factory so its more then likly just letn loose from abuse.

Mossy
I rang a brush through the barrel 20 times before headn to the range with remington bore cleaner then ran I dont know how many patches through it. shot 2 rds at 50yds and was pleased to see then touching. so I thought it was the fouled barrel. 3rd looked like I flinched something feirce, wich I thought Id grown out of. I can groups from my 270 and 25.06 inside of the 17hrm groups. my 3-9leupold is currently mounted on my 25.06 and Im workn up loads for it. so theres no chance Ill swap scopes to see if its that. Ill probly just order my 4-12xvII with milldots. to see. even if it doesnt fix it Im out nothing cause the 4-12 will go on my 25 and the 3-9 back on the 270 thats scopeless.

anyways I worked up some 100gr nolser partition loads and am very impressed. started with 46grs of rel19, grouped about an inch. loaded 5 rounds with 47grs tonight that Ill try and shoot tomorrow. Im going to keep incresed by one grain till i get to 50. then Ill go half a grain. till i see pressure sings or acuracy gets worse.

ohhhh and I wont be shooting the hmr til I find some ammo. still none available in our kneck of the woods

Evan

[rojo36]

Evan ,I load with RL 19 for my 25-06 ,but I don't shoot Noslers . I shoot a lot of the Barnes bullets and the bottom load given for RL 19 is 51 grs . I'm loading 54 grs now and don't have any sign of pressure . I know the Barnes bullets load different than Nosler but I didn't realize it was that much .Are you using a Nosler manual ? Most of my manuals don't even list RL 19 so I guess I should think about updating some of them .
You might check your mount on the scope to be sure you don't have it in a bind . I have a half dozen Simmons scopes and have never had trouble with any of them . But I have been guilty of a sloppy mount before . Rojo

[rojo36]

I should add that you shouldn't use loads intended for Barnes bullets to load conventional bullets or use loads for conventional to load Barnes either .

[Myk]

I agree about the vise or a good bag job. And with a 17 you shouldn't have to touch anything but the trigger. That's how I get such good groups with my .223. (Which is topped with a Simmons.)

I disagree about Simmons being the worse. Tasco is the worst, my Cabela's scope looks a lot like it was made by Tasco and it can change its settings whenever it wants too, it's focus went out of whack on its own. I have a cheap Simmons on my '06 that won't adjust right but once it's adjusted it holds it. I have a better Simmons on my .223, the POI changed from last year to this year but it adjusts correctly (1 click = 1/4"@100yds), and there could be other things besides the scope that changed the POI, especially with a new gun. There are good and bad scopes from everyone.

It could be the scope or mount. Did you locktight the mount screws if you're not using the integral mounts on the rifle? It could also be the scope but because of a problem you made if you tightened the rings too tight.

Is the bore clean? That will change things if it's fouled up.

The main thing is to remove yourself from the equation and have a clean bore. With a non-recoiling rifle like a 17 removing yourself shouldn't be hard.

['da law]

Evan,

I'd try the mounts and such as Myk advised. I have seen some weird stuff happen when a mount gets loose. The least movement will throw the groups out considerably and sometimes you can't tell the mount is loose by feel alone. Could be the scope, I own a couple of the Simmons Aetecs and have never had the least amount of trouble outta them. At any rate, try the mounting hardware, a clean bore and a good set of bags. If it's still happenin', have a friend shoot the .17 just to make sure you aren't "shotgunnin'" the trigger or anticipating the gun going off.

'da law

[Evan]

I think Ill just mount my scope of choice and snug it all up, that way if the rings were loose then they wont be with the new scope it itl be shooting like a dream. guess i just wan an exscuse to get new glass

thankx for the tips. ill check the rings and look at it cause i dont have no ammo.

thankx again

Evan

[Handloader]

I only have one thing to say about scopes. LEUPOLD best money you will ever spend. Remember it's better to have good optics on a cheap rifle that cheap optics on a good one. Never skimp on the glass. Besides you can usually pick up a leupold fairly cheap used and if you find somthing wrong with it leupold will fix or relace it.

[Evan]

yeah I cant agree with you anymore, thats my way of thinkn to, bought the simmons for my 10/22 but liked it enough that its seen use on my 2506 22/250 ummmmm 17 and might have had it on a 30.06 for split second.

the 12 power vxII will someday end up on it. though right now it doesnt matter real. dont shoot very much these days. unless Im snipn pigeons in the pasture with my 10/22 its got a cheap bsa on it that ive been pretty impressed with for an 80 dollar scope.

I guess Im one a those guys that just cant pass up cheap scope. and coulda had 1 few goods but instead i got 5 low to mid range scopes grrrrrrrrr actualy I have to junk scopes a leupold and sightron milldot wich are higher end scopes well the sigrton is

[SD Handgunner]

I too have seen the good and the bad of Simmons Scopes. To date the only ones I have not had trouble with are a 2.8x10x44mm ATEC, a 6.5x20x44mm 44 MAG, an older Japanese #800116 8x32x44mm, and a 1022T 3x9x32mm AO. However since I no longer own a Rifle (just Handguns) I do not own any of these scopes anymore. I did have a new Whitetail Expedition 6x18x42mm that was JUNK, as was a 4.5x14x40mm Whitetail Classic.

Currently on my Contender Handguns I am using Burris LER Handgun Scopes. I have two 3x12x32mm LER Burris Handgun Scopes and a 2x7x32mm LER Burris Handgun Scope. I am impressed with all of them. For that matter I have a 4x32mm Swift Handgun Scope on a Smith & Wesson 7" 22S that is working out OK.

Larry

[Evan]

Larry

yeah i hear you

Evan